Monday, September 18, 2006

Quickie Dickie

i was hemming and hawing about putting this link on my site for a while ( read: 10 hours), but i feel i have to. if you have the stomach, click on this and read the article. then click on the video portion that accompanies it. kids for another crusade.

3 comments:

Lacquer, Semi-Gloss Lacquer said...

ah... two religious posts in two weeks, (or so.) (sorry this is long, but your post is not 'yeah, I'm purple, and am a cross between an antelope and BradPit, (or some Blogg survey.')

you post good stuff, Dyer.

Regrettably, my computer is too old and slow to really do videos justice.
-My guess is that the film will show a lot of Charasmatic worship and training of adolescents.

-This is not a new concept, (I went through years of 'camp,' like this from aged 12 -up to working for one in my early twenties. (funny thing, though, I started in the early seventies, and it was a fundi camp, (not charasmatic,) -but still was very intense.

Christian HighSchools and Colleges (such as Simpson, Nyack, and Fuller Theological Seminary,)(which are also charasmatic,)
-also have retreats and camps like this too.
(In fact, I recall reading notes on the church of the subgenius also having them... (way different focus, though,) Not sure what Burning Man would be classified as.

As an insider to the Bible Camp world, I'll comment.

-Do I think this sort of camp is good?
-When you emphasise how 'different you are from the world, --and make so many things your enemy and use such extremes and theatrical manipulation...
No...
they are actually quite damaging, and set people up for very difficult lives, and alienate both the attendants of the camps and the rest of the world.

-When it is a chance to study, hang out, worship, spend time in nature, swim, hike, (etc, etc,) and draw closer into one's beliefs and relationshp thereof?
Sure,
it's excellent, (and there have been tons of experiences like this in all sorts of beliefs and focus'...)

Problem is, (religion wise,) so often the emphasis is on the negatives in terms of defining who one is.
'...we don't do this, or we are against that.'
---Instead of 'who are you in love with, what makes sense to you, what defines you, -how to care for others, (regardless of if they have that view or not.)

Too often, correctly, there is a definition of onesself and beliefs as 'anti' (and others are seen for 'shortcomings' and a 'threat,')

It took a long time for me to get over that.
Now it's my job to help others feel less threatened (oft times by those who still hold those beliefs, and help them not see it as 'us and them.')
(It's one of the reasons why I am so leary of groups, by the way.)

But, thinking of those years, the purity and honesty of communication, belief, love for friends, and hope in the presence of God, I still find a lot of peace. (That was not manipulated.) When you are that age, you're a total defenseless dork, and your feelings are all right there.
You experience things in a different way, and it affects you. It's an apex, people don't really change past those times.
-They just grow larger and smarter at doing things to survive, -which includes rationalizing, disbelieving, and growing more cyincal.

I really would like to know what your hesitations were, I think I share your concerns, have been upset with far greater examples than the video (probably has,) am glad that you recognize the set-up, respect your hesitancy, and am glad that you put this post up.

(...and no, none of the camps taught that dancing was evil...)
...it did lead to drunkenness, illicit sex, drug abuse, VD, broken marriages, car accidents, tooth decay, infidelity, infertility, ingrown toenails, and premature death in a box somewhere in detroit (all in one night,)
-but that was only if you had a marijuanna cigarrette at an Doors concert... once Morrison croaked, we were safe.)

scarysquirrelman said...

if i ever get my computer's energy source changed from electricity to wind-aided, i'm going to need you to comment daily.
i was hesitant, because (in a sense) it IS just another indoctrination camp. but, because bush has announced a third rebirth of faith (whatever the fuck that means)and the religious (as opposed to spritual) nuts have been on the warpath since the mid-90's and this is the most theocratic themed administration we've seen in the last 100+ years, i began to wonder what the legacy might be if bush's messianic posture isn't quashed in its infancy. and to see 8 year olds almost prostrating themselves in front of his image was very disconcerting (not to mention the speaking in tongues crap, chanting "one nation under GOD!", practicing abortion protests and doing martial arts workouts).
now, we all know that kids' minds are so open and fresh that any adult can mold them as they will, so that sight alone was not surprising. what got me was the pastor in charge of it all going to the premiere of the movie and standing before the audience to state that she didn't feel exploited by the filmmakers in any way (even though it appeared that the makers weren't in favor of her "christian children as warriors just like the swarthy suicide bombers" stance). what i'd, also, like to read is the parents' take on all of this. did they really know what was going on? is this something that they wish they'd had when they were that age? is this something that any of them actually experienced as a child?
i've been through it as well (though not for as long as you)and i feel comfortable in saying that it will create a backlash in the majority of those kids when they become old enough to realize the machinations performed by the very adults they have been told to trust.
also, i hesitated, because i didn't know if i wanted to put up another post that my "peers" would ignore, because politics and religion don't seem to mix with my blogger "crowd". i'm not slamming them, i'm just saying that it's not their general cup of boston tea.

Lacquer, Semi-Gloss Lacquer said...

wind powered... hmmm. okay.

Well, to be brief, among some of your observations and questions regarding the whole 'previous generation thing.

-I'm of the previous generation, (we were called 'Jesus People,' (basically a revival era from the late sixties to mid seventies,) The people who now are sending kids to camp, --and the church leaders in question (etc.) are from that (initial,) era, and are the ones setting up and sending the kids.

-What is sad, on so many levels is, (my era,) has really abandoned a lot of the foundation 'faith,' and teachings (and the Bible,) and gone after cliche's and heroes, psychobable, bad theology, ---and it's been four decades of different denoms chasing roman candles across the yard, (lights, show, fireworks, exhaustion, --not much substance, but very entertaining to the neighbors, as we come across like a pack of freaks.)

-The heros chosen also are highly flawed, full of spin, and themeselves tend to dislike 'true believers,' (Bush really distances himeself from the religious when election times come, -because he has an agenda, and is not really into the same relationship, -it's more marketing.)

-You'd break out into hives if you went into many Christian Book Stores over the past decade, and found the lifesized cut-out of Bush, with a Bible, promoting his devotional, btw.)

The end result of a lot of us who 'started our faith,' in the seventies and eighties has gone in three very distinct ways:

-There's been a noticible cynicism and trend towards disbelief and a feeling of being totally duped (the likes of which Sam Kinneson was brilliant at conveying,) Kinneson was a former Charasmatic Penticostal preacher, btw, and that branch of the faith is somewhat of an easy target -because they are the performance artists of the church, -always have been.)
-There's been Those who've gone into deeper and more bizarre practices, becoming almost cartoon ish, and not really caring about the reality and substance, -so long as it satiates the drama factor,
-and there's those who've managed to get off the pendulumn, (after both versions of the above,) who burn through to a sort of healthy base, tend to go to a more 'orthodox,' and less vocal, less dramatic, more stable 'walk,' -and are kind of like counsellors who help AmWay devotees back to sanity, having been there themselves.

If there is any solace in this, (which I can attest to, having seen alot of young people grow up and work through circuses even wilder than what your video shows,)
--It would be that (If God exists,) Said God is all about clearing up the mania, and securing folks in a rational and growing relationship, (which heals the cynicism, the manic and bi-polar tendencies, and brings on peace.) (Christians see the relationship as guided by their God. -and their God isn't given to bizarre flights.)

I'd not sweat 'not posting,' your thoughts, (it's your blog, and if you're thinking of this stuff, you have a right to post it,)

Your posts bring up good questions and concerns, (I don't read it for entertainment, I just read it.)
-and dialogue may go past a few one liners about it all,
(I bothered to respond to the based on your interest and concern,)
Figured this may help.

I'll just lurk from here, if you have a desire to discuss this or anything else, we'll no doubt bump into each other again, get reintroduced, -and can talk,
-or not.
No biggie.

Have a good one.